check Toroidal[Heavyweight] Vs SMPS[Lightweight] amplifiers

9 years 3 months ago #14025 by qss

Sinfinity wrote: Have you tried Tony (ASS) amps that he uses on his own R2 demo system comprising of the ASS scoops loaded with b&c 18" power hungry drivers that he loads them with ?


Yes Matt, my point exactly. I'm sure they are Matrix smps amps,

I could recommend a few other smps amps that would do the job.
1. 2 x powersoft K10s
2. 1 x powersoft K20
3. 2 x FFA10000
4. 2 x Crown I-Tech 8000/12000

Just wondered which toroidal transformer amps and how many would be needed to power 8 x ASS RX-DC (B&C 18sw115 18" loaded)? 1700w 8 ohm drivers.
Oh yeah, with good headroom!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

9 years 3 months ago #14044 by Sinfinity

qss wrote:

Sinfinity wrote: Have you tried Tony (ASS) amps that he uses on his own R2 demo system comprising of the ASS scoops loaded with b&c 18" power hungry drivers that he loads them with ?


Yes Matt, my point exactly. I'm sure they are Matrix smps amps,

I could recommend a few other smps amps that would do the job.
1. 2 x powersoft K10s
2. 1 x powersoft K20
3. 2 x FFA10000
4. 2 x Crown I-Tech 8000/12000

Just wondered which toroidal transformer amps and how many would be needed to power 8 x ASS RX-DC (B&C 18sw115 18" loaded)? 1700w 8 ohm drivers.
Oh yeah, with good headroom!


Seemed to be a good show for toroidals at the last meet in Southall. There were some heavy beasts that were certainly getting stuck in. I think there is another meet coming up for the scoops. Might be worth having a listen to the toroids on the day to see which ones sound best to you.

Cheers
Matt

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

9 years 2 months ago #14130 by Daz

AudioDreemz wrote:

Daz wrote: Just wondering again.

Daz

It wouldnt work well due to the cycle of direct mains being too low and would heat up the components mighty fast plus at that way it would be a bit hard for (Class H) design since those use multi voltage for efficiency as opposed to conventional AB so you would end up with a large amplifer with huge heatsinks and low output power.


The direct rectified mains would work fine in the UK. You would still have a 100Hz re-charge cycle which is no different to a conventional Toroidal based PSU. I never liked 110V anyway its low enough to make you feel safe but high enough to kill you.

The hard part would be the safety issue of not having an isolated supply. Would work with AB and H but as you point out a class AB stage would be massive.

Daz

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 11 months ago #15552 by Radders
hi all , New to FSP but thought i'd put mt 2p in here...

ive had limited experience with SMPS powered amps but the 1 i have used was a peavey tour 450 bass head, 450 watts at 4 ohms, 300 watts at 8 ohms.

i had a problem with this head shortly after joining my current band on bass guitar, they are LOUD! , some may say TOO LOUD, the amp is 100% fine when not driven to its limits, once it gets to its limits tho it just gives up, nothing in reserve whatsoever, i am now using a 1000 watt Warwich bass head, HEAVY bit of kit it is too, massive transformer, copes alot better at higher volume levels.

ive looked quite alot at the newer generation of power amps, ones ive looked quite closely at are the behringer inuke series, peavey IPR, crown xti, and the thommann TSA series of amps, the main factor i have noticed with these new generation amps is that they go down to 2 ohm operation, and when bridged go to 4 ohm, on the surface this seems great, i was thinking of going the seperate preamp/power amp route for my bass rig, so to drive my full rig at 4 ohms bridged at the amp seemed like a great option.... a bit more research later, lots of reading up on other peoples experiences i discover that some of these amps really dont like being driven that hard and give up when you need that lil extra grunt.

another factor is the power ratings manufacturers put on their products, eg, the behringer iNuke amps, lets take the iNuke 3000, specs are;-
Delivers 2 x 1500 Watts into 2 Ohms; 2 x 880 Watts into 4 Ohms; 3000 Watts into 4 Ohms (bridge mode) and weighs less than 7 lbs / 3.3 kg
sounds great dont it! then you see the price, seems like perfection, cheap, powerfull and lightweight, well 2 out of 3 aint bad i spose but...the numbers are total BS and do not represent true RMS ratings, they might represent the output just before the thing blows up, but what good is that to us when we have the rest of the show to complete
in reality 2 x 8 ohm loads is actually getting less than 300 watts RMS, and when bridged with a 4 ohm load your lucky to get 1k watts, the worrying part here is that many manufacturers are starting to use these stupid specs in an attemp to impress the (unknowing) consumers, i have to say at this point however that peavey and crown are giving true specs (assuming my research is correct) however they are still basing their specs on a 2 ohm load, so when replacing an old heavy amp with a newer lightweight SMPS amp driving 8 ohms per channel you really arent getting alot of the power from the amps.

so my conclusion to the heavy v SMPS amps - stick with the older heavier amps, if you do want lightweight SMPS amps aim for the most powerful 1`s available or lose all headroom.

what is interesting with these newer generation amps is the DSP functions that come in some of them, definately worth a read. eg peavey ipr DSP, iNuke 6000DSP and crown are also doing a DSP version of the xTi

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 4 months ago #18090 by Gee136

Kanwar wrote: Hi Folks,


I want to know about what you people think about lightweight and heavyweight amplifiers. Toroidal transformer based amps put lot of weight and smps based amplifiers are lightweight.

Transportation of lightweight amps is easy but again we have speakers also which are much more heavier than toroidal transformer based amplifiers instead.

So what is the preference in terms of sound quality such as handling of low frequencies LF according to your experiences.

Kindly shed some light on this.



regards,
Kanwar


In a nutshell, heavyweight Toroidal amplifiers will be obsolete :!: Only die hard set in their ways equipment users will have them smiley36

The technology is here NOW for efficient SMP lightweight amplifiers & it will only get better smiley20

Respect......................... smiley4

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 4 months ago #18091 by levyte357
Have recently heard 1x lightweight amp in 2.66 ohms stereo smash down 3x heavy bridge monsters on sub,
in the most torturing arena conceivable.. A roots sound clash.

However, only the most premium lightweights could do something like this, and there are many out there, purporting huge output figures,
but found lacking in reality.

\"When in Vegas, do as the vegasians do\".

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 4 months ago #18092 by nickyburnell
IF your world is installations or you and your crew are strong:
What the hell is the point?
Heavy amps out perform on sub £ for £ and unless you spend top dollar are more relaible too.
INF8 mk2, Proline, VZ, big QSC. Thay all do the job, as do others.
A typical rig on here (we are DIY after all) could have all its bottom end run on an INF8 Mk2 or similar. The cost? Well 30kg, which in the bigger picture of 4 scoops/bins aint nothing.
Neo drivers is another thing, what for? To save 5kg in a bloody great 50kg lump of wood? Certainly not as good on sub, and loads more money too.
If these lightweights were a whole new world sonically, with massive reserves of oomph, or were offered with a seriously long waranty then maybe there is a point
Backwards step in all but weight in my books.
IMHO smiley33

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 4 months ago #18093 by levyte357

nickyburnell wrote: IF your world is installations or you and your crew are strong:
What the hell is the point?
Heavy amps out perform on sub £ for £ and unless you spend top dollar are more relaible too.
INF8 mk2, Proline, VZ, big QSC. Thay all do the job, as do others.
A typical rig on here (we are DIY after all) could have all its bottom end run on an INF8 Mk2 or similar. The cost? Well 30kg, which in the bigger picture of 4 scoops/bins aint nothing.
Neo drivers is another thing, what for? To save 5kg in a bloody great 50kg lump of wood? Certainly not as good on sub, and loads more money too.
If these lightweights were a whole new world sonically, with massive reserves of oomph, or were offered with a seriously long waranty then maybe there is a point
Backwards step in all but weight in my books.
IMHO smiley33


Well performing lightweight amp is great where building power supply is ropey, but you still have to power 4x 1kw subs.

Have also heard chinese copy of "well known" premium lightweight, on 32A, sound "immense" powering 4x PD1850 scoops.
This amp would definitely overpower CA18/MA5000VZ/Naphon/9001 in building with ropey 32A ring main/13A sockets.

Total cost to import inc duty, is prob same as CA18 used.

Only problem is, if amp would be DOA, or blow 1st gig ?

When Chinese start copying premium lightweights "properly", is when transformer amps start dying out.

\"When in Vegas, do as the vegasians do\".

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 4 months ago #18094 by luton_soundman
Replied by luton_soundman on topic Toroidal[Heavyweight] Vs SMPS[Lightweight] amplifiers
if you're on about the lightweight copy i think you are, its fair to say that amp has been broken many times and repaired with better components, and other things changed in order for it to be where it is now though.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

8 years 4 months ago #18095 by levyte357

luton_soundman wrote: if you're on about the lightweight copy i think you are, its fair to say that amp has been broken many times and repaired with better components, and other things changed in order for it to be where it is now though.



Yep, owner has told me that too. smiley2

Exactly why I said, it's only when the Chinese start building better lightweight premium copies, that Transformer amps will finally start to die out.

\"When in Vegas, do as the vegasians do\".

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Powered by Kunena Forum