New Driver better than 1850.. (Yawn, again) - Fane Prime XS

ArthurG wrote: 18XS is for compact BR and large chamber scoops.

Arthur, are you aware of optimal characteristics required for drivers to survive in large chamber scoops, at 1200W power input, with eq typically used by scoop users?

ArthurG wrote:
Finally, I don't understand why people is comparing this new 18XS to 1850. Their purpose are totally different ...
Cheers
Arthur

took the words right out of my mouth

levyte357 wrote:

ArthurG wrote: 18XS is for compact BR and large chamber scoops.

Arthur, are you aware of optimal characteristics required for drivers to survive in large chamber scoops, at high power with plenty of eq ?

Plenty of EQ = 1/ Xmax: 12mm xmax one way. CHECK
Plenty of EQ = 2/ Excursion: real 32mm of mechanical excursion available (controlled by top of the line highly optimized UKM spiders). CHECK
Power = 1200 reel tested watts. CHECK

So the answer is obviously yes, especially when you compare to other ferrite drivers that have half or 1/3 less mechanical excursion...

next question?

PS: For your information Levyte, and you can ask Mark at PD, more than half of broken PD1850 are because of excursion, not because of thermal (former hitting the back plate --> physical damage to the coil --> short circuit --> death)

So listen carefully my friend, it will be my only comparison between 18XS and 1850 in this topic: 1850 has a bit more thermal capacity than 18XS (thanks to 5" coil vs 4") but the Prime has much much more excursion capacity (64mm peak-peak vs 32mm peak-peak !!!) that in my opinion is more important in a large chamber scoop than pure power handling.


Edit: thanx Lazarus, it saved my message ! for those who don't know, Lazarus is a Chrome plugin that save your forms. very useful:
chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/loljle...bcpfhfmgopdkppkifgno

bitzo wrote: Hi Arthur first of all welcome to the forum then...the spanish brand ok... is beyma I guess but what is the italian brand? There are a few...

Thanx for your welcome bitzo :wave:
You guess well for the Spanish brand smiley17
the other brand is B&C but I buy very few to be honest (less than 50pcs per month for some special projects). And to be fair, I'm very satisfied by their HF drivers (I only use DE160, DE250 and DE610). Problem is their woofers, bullshit specs (T&S parameters and power rating) and consistency

Cheers
Arthur

ArthurG wrote:

levyte357 wrote:

ArthurG wrote: 18XS is for compact BR and large chamber scoops.

Arthur, are you aware of optimal characteristics required for drivers to survive in large chamber scoops, at high power with plenty of eq ?

So the answer is obviously yes, especially when you compare to other ferrite drivers that have half or 1/3 less mechanical excursion...

next question?

So listen carefully my friend, it will be my only comparison between 18XS and 1850 in this topic: 1850 has a bit more thermal capacity than 18XS (thanks to 5" coil vs 4") but the Prime has much much more excursion capacity (64mm peak-peak vs 32mm peak-peak !!!) that in my opinion is more important in a large chamber scoop than pure power handling.

The only reason this thread started, was because "someone" said they think this driver will be better than the PD1850 overall, and we've kinda' been hearing the same thing since 2007.

You state this driver is suited to large chamber scoops, so that makes me compare it to the best large chamber scoop driver ever made, or drivers I have "personally" heard in large chambers, that can handle high power input. "Not" 1850s, as most people know 1850 is optimal in small chamber scoops.

Have you personally tested this driver in a large chamber scoop cab?

levyte357 wrote: thread started, was because "someone" said they think this driver will be better than the PD1850 overall, and we've kinda' been hearing the same thing since 2007.

18XS was never ever intended to replace 1850. I know, it was made for me and the primary use is a compact vented cab

levyte357 wrote: You state this driver is suited to large chamber scoops, so that makes me compare it to the best large chamber scoop driver ever made, or drivers I have "personally" heard in large chambers, that can handle high power input. "Not" 1850s, as most people know 1850 is optimal in small chamber scoops.

Have you personally tested this driver in a large chamber scoop cab?

I did not exactly said that the driver is best suited for large chamber scoop. I repeat, 18XS was designed for compact BR. But I said that it should work fine in scoop due to the large excursion capacity and the high power. Now, is it the best driver for scoop ? I don't know and I never said that as I never tried it...

I think one day we need to get our hands on one and have some fun smiley4 wonder how it would perform in shortman mini/full??

ArthurG wrote: I did not exactly said that the driver is best suited for large chamber scoop. I repeat, 18XS was designed for compact BR. But I said that it should work fine in scoop due to the large excursion capacity and the high power. Now, is it the best driver for scoop ? I don't know and I never said that as I never tried it...

Arthur, is it only the Xmax related figures that lead you to think this driver will "work fine" upto rated power in a scoop?

Well, I won't use strong language like "misinformed" or "annoying".. :lol:

However, based on experience, testing and driver comparisons in different cabs, I'm "informed" enough to know, it takes lot more than just impressive Xmax/Xmech/Xdamage, to keep driver working, with good efficiency, in control, and sounding decent above 800W power input in large chamber scoop.

levyte357 wrote: Arthur, is it only the Xmax related figures that lead you to think this driver will "work fine" upto rated power in a scoop?

Please read more carefully what I have posted here and on SP today. tip: I did not talk only about Xmax :roll:

levyte357 wrote: Well, I won't use strong language like "misinformed" or "annoying".. :lol:

"misinformed" in reply to
"mediocre driver" where it's a top class model in its category
"power handling 1200W :lol: " when it takes the claimed power in the adequate design (and it's a fact, not a guess)

"annoying" because you cannot stop to critic 18XS without even have seen/tested it.

so I believe my words were carefully chosen.

levyte357 wrote: However, based on experience, testing and driver comparisons in different cabs, I'm "informed" enough to know, it takes lot more than just impressive Xmax/Xmech/Xdamage, to keep driver working, with good efficiency, in control, and sounding decent above 800W power input in large chamber scoop.

that's where you are fully wrong and you are nothing "informed" about 18XS. and you know why ?
because you base your deduction in T&S parameters that are numbers generated from small amplitude test signal. They tell you NOTHING about a driver behavior with high amplitude/voltage material. And you guess what ? 18XS excels with high amplitude signals (>80V). But for that, you need to test it with Klippel (even if Klippel has his own limits with high excursion material) or to put the driver inside a cabinet and analyse his behavior. Unfortunately for you and unlike me, you did none. period.

Thus I highly recommend to save our verve and our energy until the day you will put the hands on a 18XS, then I will be happy to share our real life experience with you smiley1

edit: typos

ArthurG wrote: that's where you are fully wrong and you are nothing "informed" about 18XS. and you know why ?
because you base your deduction in T&S parameters that are numbers generated from small amplitude test signal. They tell you NOTHING about a driver behavior with high amplitude/voltage material.

OK Arthur, you're saying T/S Parameters mean nothing, which are what many people/companies use for choosing drivers/designing cabs, and what separates excellent drivers from "the rest", so that's where I'll sign off with our "exchange".

Here's something else, that also means nothing then... smiley2
www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=faq1


It's obvious you were "dispatched" here, purely to promote Fane and defend their products, so all the best with your new wonder driver, and you can report back to the taskmasters on a job well done...