file Help me pick some subs

7 years 4 months ago #22636 by HarryPatter
Help me pick some subs was created by HarryPatter
Hi, looking for some help picking subs. Looking really for the lowest frequency response, furthest throw and cleanest sound, I realise there's going to need to be a degree of compromise, but that's ok. Just looking for some advice.

I'm looking to build a sub section to be used as part of a three way system, at the minute we've got two x12's on top and a pair of B&C 15s running as kick bins with a pair of PD186s in some weird ported boxes on the bottom. The system will be used inside and out, with crowds of maybe 100/150 at most for now, playing a range of styles, mostly electronic, reggae, dubstep, jungle, tekno, techno etc. What I want is for the subs to be able to go as low as possible but remain clear, I realise with only two it isn't going to be earth shattering, I originally planned to build a pair of 186 folded horns but have since read a lot of stuff saying these aren't really subs, more just a "general bass speaker", I've been considering scoops but I reckon that dip at around 90 will take away too much of the sound for us, I also don't think I could use the 186s in scoops, could I ? Unless I built the mini scoop maybe ? I'm kind of thinking now just to stick with the 186 horn as we will eventually expand, though with expansion I'd like to put more powerful drivers in to the horns, like the royal turbomax 1500 or even the PD 1850.

What's the deal with loading the 186 horn with the Turbomax or PD 1850 drivers ? Will this cause any kind of distortion in the sound or will it just increase the SPL ? How easy would these be to listen to ? I also considered, with expansion in mind, loading the 186s in to 1850 horns, how would this sound ? Presumably there would be a loss in SPL ? Would doing this run the possibility of ruining my driver ?

Are there any other enclosures that are maybe better suited to my needs ? I was looking at hogs though wasn't are what sort of frequency response they give, also wondered f they had the same dip as scoops ? Or maybe X1's, though it all comes back to whether or not my drivers are suitable.

Any help is hugely appreciated, cheers

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7 years 4 months ago #22641 by Rog Mogale
Replied by Rog Mogale on topic Help me pick some subs
"Looking really for the lowest frequency response, furthest throw and cleanest sound"

Very large folded horns with a path length of over 2.8 meters in blocks of at least 4 or 6.

"The system will be used inside and out, with crowds of maybe 100/150 at most for now, playing a range of styles"

Reflex, as large folded horns will still be making good output at 300 to 400 meters away. Great if you have 4000 people outside, but a bit too much throw for 150 people.

"I originally planned to build a pair of 186 folded horns but have since read a lot of stuff saying these aren't really subs, more just a general bass speaker"

Yep, they don't do what you call sub. If a 50Hz cutoff is OK for you then smallish amount of 186 or 1850 horns will work well.

"I've been considering scoops but I reckon that dip at around 90 will take away too much of the sound for us, I also don't think I could use the 186s in scoops, could I"

So what range are the B&C 15's playing from, 150Hz up? You can use a 186 in a scoop, I'm not sure which design is best for them as I don't spend my whole life testing different scoop driver combinations, but someone will know the answer.

"What's the deal with loading the 186 horn with the Turbomax or PD 1850 drivers ? Will this cause any kind of distortion in the sound or will it just increase the SPL ? How easy would these be to listen to ? I also considered, with expansion in mind, loading the 186s in to 1850 horns, how would this sound ? Presumably there would be a loss in SPL ? Would doing this run the possibility of ruining my driver ?"

The only difference between a 186 and 1850 horn is the size of the rear chamber. Its slightly larger, although not by much on the 186 horn as the 186 driver has different specs than the 1850 driver and needs a larger rear chamber to get the best from it. You can but both 186 and 1850 drivers in a 186 horn and you can put both 186 and 1850 drivers in an 1850 horn and no harm will result. Its just better if you match the rear chamber size to the driver to get the best efficiency. The 186 driver in both 186 and 1850 horn will sound warmer and play slightly lower than the 1850 driver. The 1850 driver in either the 186 horn or 1850 horn will sound harder, less musical and have a higher output. It all depends on what kind of sound you are after.

If you are going to build 186 or 1850 horns, then a minimum of 4 per stack is required to get enough output to do a small wedding disco. Under 4 per stack and you will struggle to know if they are even on.

"Are there any other enclosures that are maybe better suited to my needs"

Reflex. A well built double 18 with 186 drivers will only need 1 per side to do 150 people if you have some good amps. And you won't be annoying the next country when you use them outside.

Rog.
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7 years 4 months ago #22644 by HarryPatter
Replied by HarryPatter on topic Help me pick some subs
Hi Rog, thanks for the reply, exactly what I needed to hear.

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