delusions of grandeur

Maybe not quite the right title but there again,,,,,
After building a single X-15 and spending time playing around with different settings I have to concede defeat and admit im beaten.
Trial and error is definaetly the way everyone should move forward and im back at the crossroads of which way I should now go,,, a stock made 12" mid top or have some more fun and get on building from a tried and tested plan that fits the small stacks I have already constructed.
my thoughts so far are an MT 121 which seems to fit the look of a nice stack and is just within my budget however the berry ultra is not within my reach just yet.
I have 2 15" Cubos which are superb and have so far modded one ES-18 down to a 15 and two older 12" midtops which actually sound fine but are in need of replacing as they are of the twin piezo tweeter type.
I have to say the modded es-15 kicks butt and your chest but I am holding off building a second one until Johan finishes tweaking his kick idea.
Im not and have never been looking to put any of my audio equipment to work as my life is busy enough already but to own and be able to use a good sound system as and when the opportunity arises has always been a great feeling but I just dont feel its quite there yet.

I am sure there are a lot of first time builders who browse the site and are scared away by the potential costs involved in building your own cabs especially when you start to add the cost of good driversand amps that have to work day in and day out but as ive found there are some great budget drivers and amps about that do absolutely fine when systems are only used a few times a year , maybe these could be discussed a little more instead of being cast aside at the first mention of them lol.

So what went wrong with your x15 single? When I was using prefab cabs, I used 15 mid tops and honestly I just don't like the upper end of 15s. My 10 and 1s do not have the low frequency output, but they are soooo much more musical at the top end. Considering you are already using kicks, maybe a nice 10" or even 8" would be a logical next band.

For your processing, do you have any ability for time alignment? It could be that the time difference between your kick and 15 are out of phase and cancelling or something.

Hey B grade how's you? My beef was the top end of the 15" as you said, when I can get my 12" mid tops to sound sweeter I knew it wasn't going to happen.
I think I would have had to drive them hard all the time to get the best sound out of them. I don't have any time alignment yet but do have a phase button on my active x-over and I did explore all the roots available to me. To be fair I only ever intend to run one cubo, one Es-15 and one mid top a side nothing more so really a reflex 12" midtop is going to be my best bet. I am well aware if I go the mt121 root then delay settings are gonna be a must so a berry will be bought. Personally I would like to build which ever mid top I go for so that the whole rig is hand built, spose I could cheat and get Bee to flat pack me a couple lol

You can do it man. I'm not telling you not to go with the flatpack, but it does not seem like your ability to cut wood is the issue. It seems its just the 15 gets sloppy up high. I am just encouraging the DIY spirit. The pride of construction is a big add to sound toys IMO.

Haha yes you are right, well the MT is certainly playing on my mind a lot and has been all along if I'm honest, I think I may look at again at the dimensions and see if altering some of the dimensions would be drastically d'être mental to the sound as I don't like the depth of the cab in relation to the dimensions of my Es 15 and would prefer it to sit neatly on the stack bearing in mind that this system is not going to be used for hundreds of people.

Be careful. Things happen quickly to the low end when you shorten a horn. I am making a prototype of a mid horn right now and all of the free mid hor designs are too short or else too gigantic, so I am trying to prototype my own. It is deeper than my 1850s but I think I can stack them safely. Drivers are neos, so it can hang off the back a ways without becoming tippy.

Yeah I saw they can just about play down to approx 160 hz, did the original MT122 play down a little lower because of the doubling up of the 12's ?

I am not on my comp with Hresp right now, but it should definitely play lower and have less peaky stuff whenever you have multiples coupling properly.

One of the compromises (always got those) I have decided to deal with is to just go ahead and let my mid be deeper (dimensionally) than my FLH. When you lengthen a horn, the low response gets way more attractive. Dispersion gets narrower though unless you also make them bigger at the mouth. Still I want some overlap so that I can play with the crossover a bit and not be limited entirely to one spot which is not ideal for either the bass or mids. A coveniently short horn barely does 300 with authority.

I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place right now, my old mid tops are OLD but if im honest they actually sound great with the cubo and the es-15, the drivers in them are originally from cambridge audio although they have no markings on them and are solid I dont think i will ever part with them but im not happy with how they look on the stack.
I dont think any of the MT's will play down to meet the es-15 i modded although to be fair I have'nt really given the es cabs a good caning really and from memory I think they got honky at 180+ but dont quote me on that.
I just cannot decide what to do about my mid tops. arghhhhhh

What about doing like a wave guide type instead of a full horn load? Like a SMT212 type enclosure? The sims won't tell the whole story on those, but it should be kind of a slightly corner loaded bass reflex should play down pretty low and not be as lossy in the upper range although not quite as efficient. What is the width and depth on your Es-15? Foot print on the SMT is pretty stack friendly, and the people who have them seem to enjoy them. Never heard one myself.