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Delay between cabs WSX W8CM W8
- sonocation
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11 years 9 months ago #19533
by sonocation
Delay between cabs WSX W8CM W8 was created by sonocation
Hi, does anybody know rough settings for the delay times in a 4 way Martin audio wavefront system. Lets say it is a simple setup with 2x WSX (folded horn 2.1M long) per side then stacking 2 x W8CM (directed horn) and 2x W8CT (directed horn) (or/and a W8 3 way) above/beside the WSX's. The stacks would be anywhere from 8-15M apart.
I guess the mid tops should have around 4-6ms delay from the WSX, the W8CM is a directed horn as are the W8CT but i'm not sure where i should set all of the delay points between these speakers to optimise the phasing? The W8 or W8c's are 3 way, the low/mid frequency driver is a 12" also a horn setup in the cab.
Usually i suppose the delay is preset in the DX1 processors, you can download various settings for different situations. The problem is that the DX1 is out of my budget at this time, i have two 4 way BSS FDS 340 and some digital delay units to play with. I have currently been running the system with no delay and i find the bass from the WSX's is weak, i plan to change the drivers to a newer type, perhaps Void Acoustics V18-1000, i am hoping this will increase the level of bass as the power to size ratio of my WSX is a bit pathetic, have tried outside and indoors, the indoor venue was quite large, with the system in a medium sized room (7M x 12M) but with adjoining rooms through 3-4 open door ways making a total of 25M wide x 7M deep but with the system setup width ways in the end room. (indoor setup 1WSX per side and either 1X W8 (and some 15" active RCF dj monitors) on each stack or 1xW8CM and 1x W8CT ontop of each WSX (with mid and top backed down on amps and x-over) Sub bass was maxed out on the x-over and the amp is a QSC PL6 with gains at max.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can help with some rough settings.
Jimbo
I guess the mid tops should have around 4-6ms delay from the WSX, the W8CM is a directed horn as are the W8CT but i'm not sure where i should set all of the delay points between these speakers to optimise the phasing? The W8 or W8c's are 3 way, the low/mid frequency driver is a 12" also a horn setup in the cab.
Usually i suppose the delay is preset in the DX1 processors, you can download various settings for different situations. The problem is that the DX1 is out of my budget at this time, i have two 4 way BSS FDS 340 and some digital delay units to play with. I have currently been running the system with no delay and i find the bass from the WSX's is weak, i plan to change the drivers to a newer type, perhaps Void Acoustics V18-1000, i am hoping this will increase the level of bass as the power to size ratio of my WSX is a bit pathetic, have tried outside and indoors, the indoor venue was quite large, with the system in a medium sized room (7M x 12M) but with adjoining rooms through 3-4 open door ways making a total of 25M wide x 7M deep but with the system setup width ways in the end room. (indoor setup 1WSX per side and either 1X W8 (and some 15" active RCF dj monitors) on each stack or 1xW8CM and 1x W8CT ontop of each WSX (with mid and top backed down on amps and x-over) Sub bass was maxed out on the x-over and the amp is a QSC PL6 with gains at max.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can help with some rough settings.
Jimbo
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11 years 9 months ago #19534
by sonocation
Replied by sonocation on topic Re: Delay between cabs WSX W8CM W8
I have another question, since i am on a budget right now i am putting off buying a digital processor for the 4 way system. It would be ideal to have an 8 way processor however these are a bit pricy and i am going to try to get by with the gear i have for this year until i can find more work.
Basically i am wondering how people aligned their systems with folded horns back in the day. Other than using the Martin processors i cant seem to work out how it was done short of having a seperate crossover for the subs or using a separate delay for each of the top 3 amps (thats a-lot of delays on a big system with more amps).
I have 2 old 4 way BSS fds 340 x-overs, (and some other x-overs and delay units to play around with in my storage).
I was thinking for now to use a separate x-over for the WSX (without delay) and then use a Dynacord delay unit to delay the inputs to the BSS x-over and only use the mid bass mid and high outputs to the other 3 amps. This will limit my ability to align any differences between the other 3 amps but not sure if thats so important anyway as it is the WSX which has such a big delay in comparison to the other box's.?
I suppose 3 stereo channels of delay would be ideal, but that means having a delay unit with six inputs or again either 3 separate delay units for mid bass, mid and high or seperate x-overs for each band, i am fairly sure my Dynacord delay unit has 4 outputs? so if i had seperate inputs for the active x-overs or 3 sets of x-overs i could come out of the delay and into the inputs of two separate sets of x-overs (outputs 1&2 from delay into mid bass x-overs and the other outputs 3&4 from the delay into the mid and high on another x-over).
This is becoming difficult to explain, am i making this more complicated than necessary?
So to recap on the options i have considered so far:
1. Go from limiter to sub x-over(s) with no delay and also from limiter to Dynacord delay then from Dynacord outputs 1&2 to mid bass x-over inputs and from Dynacord outputs 3&4 to mid top X-over inputs. This means one delay unit and 3 seperate active x-overs Depending if stereo or 6 X-overs if mono!
Or
2. Delay mid bass mid and top together and use a separate X-over for subs (less control).
or
3. Cough up £1300 for a used XTA DP448.
It just seems very complicated to me, how were people doing this before the days of 8way digital x-overs?
Other options were to but 2 of LEM DX26 or one DBX DRIVE RACK PA 2 in 6 out and use my old BSS x-overs for the subs. or 2X DBX drive racks?
But are the DBX and LEM considered good enough quality for professional audio?
Sorry this is such a long post i am a little confused as to what to do.
Basically i am wondering how people aligned their systems with folded horns back in the day. Other than using the Martin processors i cant seem to work out how it was done short of having a seperate crossover for the subs or using a separate delay for each of the top 3 amps (thats a-lot of delays on a big system with more amps).
I have 2 old 4 way BSS fds 340 x-overs, (and some other x-overs and delay units to play around with in my storage).
I was thinking for now to use a separate x-over for the WSX (without delay) and then use a Dynacord delay unit to delay the inputs to the BSS x-over and only use the mid bass mid and high outputs to the other 3 amps. This will limit my ability to align any differences between the other 3 amps but not sure if thats so important anyway as it is the WSX which has such a big delay in comparison to the other box's.?
I suppose 3 stereo channels of delay would be ideal, but that means having a delay unit with six inputs or again either 3 separate delay units for mid bass, mid and high or seperate x-overs for each band, i am fairly sure my Dynacord delay unit has 4 outputs? so if i had seperate inputs for the active x-overs or 3 sets of x-overs i could come out of the delay and into the inputs of two separate sets of x-overs (outputs 1&2 from delay into mid bass x-overs and the other outputs 3&4 from the delay into the mid and high on another x-over).
This is becoming difficult to explain, am i making this more complicated than necessary?
So to recap on the options i have considered so far:
1. Go from limiter to sub x-over(s) with no delay and also from limiter to Dynacord delay then from Dynacord outputs 1&2 to mid bass x-over inputs and from Dynacord outputs 3&4 to mid top X-over inputs. This means one delay unit and 3 seperate active x-overs Depending if stereo or 6 X-overs if mono!
Or
2. Delay mid bass mid and top together and use a separate X-over for subs (less control).
or
3. Cough up £1300 for a used XTA DP448.
It just seems very complicated to me, how were people doing this before the days of 8way digital x-overs?
Other options were to but 2 of LEM DX26 or one DBX DRIVE RACK PA 2 in 6 out and use my old BSS x-overs for the subs. or 2X DBX drive racks?
But are the DBX and LEM considered good enough quality for professional audio?
Sorry this is such a long post i am a little confused as to what to do.
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11 years 9 months ago #19535
by sonocation
Replied by sonocation on topic Re: Delay between cabs WSX W8CM W8
Also i have just wondered, is it acceptable to run subs and mid bass in mono? Then i could get away with using a 6 out processor? I prefer the idea of keeping everything on stereo, is this the norm?
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