issues of the day.

two problems:

1. sommer elephant 8 core cable sucks ass.



2. Line Arrays suck ass.

was sitting there at Play festival, listening to some martin line array, with what looked like wsx subs, i didn't actually go and check. I was maybe 30-40 yards away from stage. right next to FOH

But my point is, the bass was fine. pretty clean and accurate, rather boring, but it did throw nicely, and was there as you'd expect.

but everything above, oh dear...

lack of details in mids and tops, no tone to the voice region. very COLD

and the other massive problem, and what got me suddenly interested in what the sound was doing, was the phasing and filtering of the high end!! it's like someone may have farted on the other side of the site, and it temporarily blew the high end away, because it wasn't windy!

This is a martin line array, who are supposed to be making some of the best, if not THE best line array in the world. Why do people use line array? i can think of several point source setups that would have flattened that in every single aspect.

im yet to hear anyline array that sounds good, even in an indoor arena.....

me too... have heard many, and have never ever been impressed.

I have yet to be seriously impressed by a large LA. I just think that the ease of rigging and the simulation software available have just made these an easy option.

Seems to be some sort of move back to so-called point source though but that also is not without its pit-falls.

Tony

i would agree that they are on the whole, they are being used for their speed of setup and control, rather than their final results. which seems horribly wrong to me.

also agree that some point source have their pitfalls. but there lots of very very very good point source boxes out there. e.g. i would have no doubt that TA880H would have done a good job.

also...

now, i have mixed a lot of bands, but i don't claim to be a hugley experienced engineer for bands, however....who ever was on the faders needs to learn what a kick drum is not for... sheesh.

Unfortunately that has become the norm, it used to be that the "Whole" sat on the back of the Bass and Drums, now the majority of mixes seem to be dominated by them.

These is a well known venue near here where the house engineer seems to have a fixation for Kik and Bass to the detriment of all else.

To be fair I have band managers come up to me and ask me to raise the kik to what I thought was an unacceptable level, my answer "No" well nearly that .

Tony

at the risk of sounding like an old man for this certain topic alone, i blame modern dance music lol. where the focus is on the kick, snare. seems the these styles are leaking onto the live sound circuit.

i was actually going to say that i thought he was trying to make it sound like a dance track or something. kick drum was drowning out everything and bringing a sort of sidechain compression sound to it, which really was not nice to listen to. and considering the local band (Solko) were actually quite good, and i have mixed them live before, i was wanting to hear what they were like in a big stage situation.

that experience was ruined by the sound setup and the mix.

i agree about dance being all about kick and hf, but to say this is why all bands are being mixed in this way for me is wrong.... each and every style of music should be mixed to how it was made, for example my lms has a few presets for the same rig, but for differant musical styles, dance, dnb, reggae etc. each musical stly should be treated very differant, playing rock for example on my dance presets sounds bad but playing it on my rock presets sounds how it should and vice versa..... is it lack of education on the sound engineers part.... or is it more than that. The customer...... rubish quality mp3's etc make all genres sound bad. So the un educated person thinks this is how it should sound and when it does not they assume it sounds wrong....

And as for dance being all about kick and hf..... i made a few roots guys look shocked only yesterday when i droped some tech house stuff on a reggae rig, (testing only) and they realised it was dropping lower than roots music was....

bee wrote:
And as for dance being all about kick and hf..... i made a few roots guys look shocked only yesterday when i droped some tech house stuff on a reggae rig, (testing only) and they realised it was dropping lower than roots music was....

That does not surprise me at all, I have an amazingly well recorded Bluegrass album (Emmylou Harris) with notes lower than I have ever heard on a roots system You don't hear them you just feel the building shudder, with the right boxes and drivers that is.

i well believe it, not got that album ill give it a listen. Some of the lowest bass ive heard is in some of the chill out albums i have (cafe del mar type stuff)