A better PA for the band...

Hi,
I am looking to build a versatile rig for our 5 piece band.

I have been interested in building some cabs for quite some time and by the looks of it, it is possible to get some better performance cabs built rather than trying to buy right now. We've dreamt down the D&B route already due to the drummers experience with the gear and our own at a recent event. For a for box system, 2 Q7s and 2 B2s sounded massive and would be more than enough for what we do most places.

Price tag there is way beyond our means.

I joined the BFM forum a while back and have the plans for the full set so this has been of interest until I started looking in to obtaining the parts and found that it wasn't quite as cheap as they'd like you to believe. That said, it looks like most of these reasonable looking builds are similar in terms of cost.

It still looks like the BFM OT12 cabs are what I should build right now - they look lightweight and will easily fit our needs particularly if we add a pair later on, they're not too big and clumsy and I don't think anyone will worry about taking them up to the dreaded 1st floor function room as and when they appear!

That aside, I'm open to ideas. I would say that I started to look at peoples MT130 and the like but wow they look like a solid and dare I say extremely heavy box unloaded?!

I'm obviously posting here because I don't want quite as biased opinions as you get from the BFM crowd.

The things I like about the BFM OT12 is that it can be run with amps we own already and to be honest, I read a recent post from someone showing their MT130 'response graph' and it looked almost bell shaped...That is, it looked like some serious EQ was going to be needed to correct it to sound correct?

I'm not entirely sold down the horn loaded route but the performance appeals to me. I am already regretting selling my old Martin Audio F15 / S15 cabs but by the looks of it, perhaps I can do better or come close.

I would like a rig I can use inside and out although outside gigs are not quite as much of a regular thing and right now all we need is a pair of tops (mid/highs) that we can add to the keyboard players own 18" front loaded subs. I will probably build subs for outside gigs obviously but my starting point is something with plenty of headroom to provide a smooth top end across the board.

If I'm honest, for now if I can make a pair of speakers that surpass the mackie, DB technologies (O402) and alto powered speakers we currently have access to I'll be happy. I thought they struggled a little once they had to deal with keys, guitar and other instruments (with subs) and think that their built in limiters possibly start to cause issue at higher volumes. Not to mention that the HF range or even mid range (the important part) doesn't sound as smooth as I'd like.

Any people with experience here, you comments are welcome. This PA is for live band use so it makes sense that people comment with that in mind.

We play covers from 50's to present day.

Thanks a lot.

hey

first off, I would avoid the BFM designs. They're OK, but there are much better designs that can be made to suit your purposes.

Some more info would help first though just to nail it down:

How many people do you normally play to?
Size of rooms/halls?
What gear do you have already? Amps specifically and a crossover if you have one, but mixing desk would help too.
How to you transport, do you have a van or is it all in car boots etc?
Do you have help to move it about? Does everything have to be one man portable or could some parts (subs for example) be a two man lift?

Just off the top of my head, I would assume its a quality reflex system your looking for. While a speaker like the MT-130 is very good, its designed to be used in groups for much bigger crowds, one on its own has a fairly narrow dispersion and wouldn't be the best sounding in small rooms and halls.

Probably a 12" top, maybe a double 12" if you could stretch, with a 1" comp on top, and then some reflex subs, maybe a PPSL design or a small tapped horn. Get some decent quality drivers in them and you'd have a great sounding wee system that i'd be happy to say wouldn't be a huge mismatch against the d&b system you mention.


In general, what I would say is that your never gonna beat the cheepest speaker brands on price. They use such cheap comonents and buy in such bulk that its impossible for a one man builder to compete on price. So you will still have to spend a little money on this project. However what it is possible to do is spend the same money as you would on what would be a middling brand and get a far better performance, almost as good as the top brands. Long as your expectations are not see too low then I think you can have a PA system that will make your band sound great.

k

Agree with Kevin above, A pair of the Tham15 Tapped horns and a double 12" + Comp per side make a brilliant combination for live bands.

Just use quality components and there is no need to worry about it sounding worse than the top names. It will pee over the likes of Mackie etc.

Tony

Another +1 for keeping it simple. Most of the work I do with my system is live bands. 15"+1.4" over a single 18" reflex for smaller gigs, double 12" + 1.4" over double 18" for larger gigs. All reflex cabs. Twin 10" like the Q7's is also not a bad option.

As the others have said, keep it simple, use the best components you can possibly afford in a well-built cab and you'll easily match, if not better, a lot of branded systems.

Hi,
Thanks for your posts, I have to say something has been stopping me building the BFM stuff.

I quite like the look of the Shermann G series speakers and the BMS coaxial CD:
bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=bms_4592nd the Shermann g5 and a couple of others use these though I'd like to know what the mid/bass drivers are in both the G5 and the G3 (2x12). The boxes themselves look simple enough. I suppose it's pseudo 3 the way?

Anybody got any suggestions for a goto cab dimension software that I can enter the details into?

If I can keep the amp weight down to power a system like 4 decent built subs and say a pair of 2x12 tops I think going down this route could save a lot and be worthwhile despite some of the powered systems out there (HK Actor, DB Tech Flexsys Concert etc)....

It's all about the trade off of cost vs convenience - powered system, system controller and desk and you're done I guess.

Any links to suggested systems could be useful, perhaps even your own builds and if you are now wishing you'd just bought an active system?

I'm just thinking out loud really.

...so I would like us to be able to cover upto 750 people / large rooms and small outdoor events and would like to use the same PA to cover the lot.

In a nutshell we need portability and functionality with sound that delivers. Hence I was for instance considering 4 BFM OT12s and 2 T39s initially. I want to keep up or do better than the likes of some of the active systems mentioned above but keep the weight down to a minimum and the cost down.

What appealed with the BFM cabs was the sensitivity - they are reputed to be stupidly loud without running huge power amps. Won't front loaded boxes be extremely power hungry therefore needing expensive and high powered amps?