file Thought about .. scoop - of course

8 years 4 weeks ago #15545 by staiper
Thought about .. scoop - of course was created by staiper
Most importantly, first let give it some "cool" name .. hmmm, maybe GTS-18 aka Grand Tunable Scoop.
..ehh now I can proceed. smiley23

Today I have fiddled with some classic scoop sketches and come to idea to make classic scoop cabinet with fine tunable throat area.
After few sketches I have find simple way to accomplish that.

Good thing may be that such way it is possible to precisely tune scoop throat area in range from ~580cm2 (~3.9" throat) even smaller if required) to ~800cm2 (5,2" throat) even WITHOUT need to pull out speaker unit from cabinet so it make it easy to tune scoop almost "on live"
Tuning "system" is thought out to be proof of any air leaks or rattling.

Rear chamber (~small to medium chamber) is deep enough to make it suitable and do not obstruct magnet pole vent even for very deep speaker units like CF18VJD.

I think that this may make possible to make cabinet suitable/tunable "on fly" for much larger range of 18" units without need to do any saw/glue modifications.

Now, my idea is here (and rough plan already finished) so it is not so big deal for some one else to design something on similar trails
.. I still do not know will I make my design public or keep it "exclusive" for scoop underground secret service smiley16 :shh: "wars"


But however, thoughts and opinions about idea.. welcome

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8 years 4 weeks ago #15546 by bee

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8 years 4 weeks ago #15549 by levyte357
Replied by levyte357 on topic Thought about .. scoop - of course
Don't see the point of this.

Tuning scoop is more than just the throat.

IMHO, there are 3x types of scoops.

a) Small chamber, tight throat, high compression, tight expansion, very efficient, OK at low notes, very long throw
b)Medium chamber, looser throat, looser compression, lower expansion, ok efficiency, very good at low notes, medium throw
c)Large chamber, large throat, low compression lowest expansion, average efficiency, unbeatable on low notes, lowest throw, lowest overall power handling

"ALL" scoop compatible drivers, are best in "either" a) or b)

If you already have a driver of choice, you have to work out which of the above it suits. Simples.

EDIT:Only one person has ever managed to create large chamber, high efficiency cab.. And that is the shortman mini. And he probably knew how to get it right, because he was building scoops for sound systems for over 30 years.

\"When in Vegas, do as the vegasians do\".

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8 years 3 weeks ago #15563 by staiper
Replied by staiper on topic Thought about .. scoop - of course
.
. of course when you build cabinet for predefined/chosen driver you can make it tuned for that exact unit only and do the job..

Even well known drivers are not exactly same to make 3 designs with fixed parameters to suit em all ..so small variations maybe can make cabinet just a bit more suited or tuned for exact speaker driver.

This was not attempt to make one universal scoop but knowing that scoop scene is in constant scoop quest and like to spend some time enjoying with good company discussing/experimenting..thought, why not..

Many people look at scoop cabinet not only as bass-bin in system but also as "instrument" which will give em desired tonal character and countless have modified or designed own versions to make personal "secret sauce" sound performance.

..So if I took it as instrument why not make one a bit tunable even post build. :idea:

This way one have at least one important variable changeable and can experiment with various (.. not said ALL) units and fine tune box for them. One can change compression ratio and chose throat area any value between ~580-800cm2 and to do this all you need is ~one minute and Allen key.
You can even play cabinet at low volume and directly listen effect of throat changing and tune it in "real time" to your preference.

This still will be serious cabinet, not compromised any way with this tunable part. Once set it have no disadvantage compared to similar cabinet with fixed built throat section.

I posted this is just to discuss/thought about idea as cabinet exist only in plans.
Hornresp or Akabak simulations show just minute differences (..you know how it goes with simulating scoop bins and real world effect/results).. so all this may be good :shock: or completely wrong :( .

We can know only once prototype is built, tested/listened (or even measured) with few 18"-ers and different throat settings.

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8 years 3 weeks ago #15564 by levyte357
Replied by levyte357 on topic Thought about .. scoop - of course
In my experience, even if a "designer" say's he has designed a scoop for a driver, in reality, all drivers which fit in that driver's "scoop group" will work well.

The ASS S118 was designed before the 1850 came out, however as 1850 was in the "group" of drivers compatible with that scoop design, hey presto, we find the best scoop/driver combo by luck.

Enlarge the chamber of the Superscooper by 50%, and watch how many drivers now work in it. smiley2

\"When in Vegas, do as the vegasians do\".

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8 years 3 weeks ago #15567 by tony.a.s.s.
Replied by tony.a.s.s. on topic Thought about .. scoop - of course
The nearest I have ever come to this was thinking about being able to change the length of the back board to alter the throat size. I would have no reason to do this except to discover what difference a throat size would make to a given chamber size. Making this part portable would make the fixings to the back of the board more difficult. This could be done by just putting two liners in and making different length boards, but the speaker would have to be removed each time. A second method would be to macine a hatch in the top of the cab and put an insert in containing a given length of board. This could only be an experiment though, as in the end the board would have to fixed to the supports. Anyway that's about it, nothing revolutionary.

Peace and goodwill to all speaker builders

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8 years 3 weeks ago #15568 by nickyburnell
Replied by nickyburnell on topic Thought about .. scoop - of course
It's very negative here in the UK at the moment Staip smiley2

Thank you for taking the time to share this. I for one would be glad to see your solution.


Nick

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8 years 3 weeks ago #15572 by Rog Mogale
Replied by Rog Mogale on topic Thought about .. scoop - of course
+1

You have to go ahead with this Stipe. Great ideas should not be put down so quickly.

Please be aware that if you do go ahead with this you may lose a massive amount of respect from one section of the industry. If a way is found to find the perfect scoop, it would stop all the scoop chat that goes round and around and around and around…

Tread with caution.

But hey, you don’t live in the UK and are a giving person. So do it.

Loads of love, and keep up the great work.

The world needs more people like you.

Rog.
The following user(s) said Thank You: dalespeakerplans

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8 years 3 weeks ago #15573 by bee

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8 years 3 weeks ago #15575 by tre4u2nv
Replied by tre4u2nv on topic Thought about .. scoop - of course
+1 some of the best results come from imagination smiley32

IT TAKES ALLSORTS

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